Official Marriland WiFi Tier List. Mark 2

  • #1

    So the last tier list got deleted in a site error. I spent some time during the site's downtime making a new tier list in Notepad. Please bear with me. I wrote this late at night, so please tell me if something is missing or is unclear.

    READ THE BOLDED TEXT BEFORE POSTING

    Things that may be debated in this topic:
    -The tier placement of certain Pokemon.

    Things that may not be debated in this topic:
    -Anything not relating to tier placement.
    -Anything with regards to the definitions of the tiers.

    More ground rules:

    1. Know what you're talking about. If you've never used Rhyperior before, do not make any assertions about its tier placement.

    2. No spamming. All forum rules apply.

    3. No flaming.

    4. Inappropriate material of any sort is strictly forbidden,

    5. No memes or internet fads.


    Also, I must mention this.
    A Note on NFEs:
    All NFEs are assumed to be in the same tier as their fully evolved form unless the NFE is distinctly different from its fully evolved form. Examples include Scyther, Trapinch, Clamperl, and Pikachu.

    And now, a must read link. Some people still don't grasp the purpose of the tiers even after explanation, so here is a link to supplement the explanations in this tier list.


    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43197








    Without further ado, let the tiers begin.

    Uber
    Uber is the tier for anything too powerful for normal OU play. An Uber may not have any solid OU counters, or it may limit the number of viable strategies in OU. Anything that overpowers or overcentralizes OU will go here. If a Pokemon is uber at its maximum potential, it is uber no matter what. Even if it’s merely an item that makes a Pokemon Uber, one cannot claim that something in Uber should be OU if its options are restricted. This means that Latias and Latios are Uber no matter what. This is just to make the definition of Uber more clear and to help get rid of gray areas between the tiers. Uber is primarily a banlist for OU and not a balanced metagame. Even if something does not perform well in Uber matches, it will still be Uber if it overpowers or overcentralizes OU. An Uber match is essentially a match in which any Pokemon is allowed.

    Uber:
    Arceus
    Darkrai
    Deoxys
    Deoxys-A
    Deoxys-D
    Deoxys-E
    Dialga
    Garchomp
    Giratina
    Groudon
    Ho-oh
    Kyogre
    Latias (with Soul Dew)
    Latios
    Lugia
    Manaphy
    Mew
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Rayquaza
    Shaymin-S
    Wobbuffet


    OU
    Pokemon in OU are considered to be generally strong in most aspects and they are the strongest Pokemon in standard play. As such, they are the Pokemon most often seen in normal play. OU is designed to be a balanced metagame and is generally considered to be the standard metagame. OU stands for OverUsed, but this refers to both power and usage in standard play. Pokemon in OU are threats that every team should be prepared for.

    OU:
    Aerodactyl
    Azelf
    Blissey
    Breloom
    Bronzong
    Celebi
    Cresselia
    Dugtrio
    Dusknoir
    Electivire
    Empoleon
    Forretress
    Flygon
    Gallade
    Gengar
    Gliscor
    Gyarados
    Heatran
    Heracross
    Hippowdon
    Infernape
    Jirachi
    Jolteon
    Kingdra
    Latias (without Soul Dew)
    Lucario
    Machamp
    Magnezone
    Mamoswine
    Metagross
    Milotic
    PorygonZ
    Roserade
    Salamence
    Scizor
    Skarmory
    Snorlax
    Spiritomb
    Starmie
    Suicune
    Swampert
    Tentacruel
    Togekiss
    Tyranitar
    Vaporeon
    Weavile
    Yanmega
    Zapdos


    BL
    BL is the tier for Pokemon that are too strong for UU, but are either outclassed in OU or not often seen in OU. Pokemon here can hold their own in OU, and they are fully legal in OU play. Since BL is just a banlist for UU, it is not designed to be a balanced tier and thus does not have its own metagame traditionally. One could call it a faux tier. At first, the need for a BL tier may seem questionable, but it is important to represent both power and usage in the tiers. BL stands for BorderLine, since Pokemon here are on the border between UU and OU, so to speak.

    BL:
    Abomasnow
    Absol
    Alakazam
    Arcanine
    Azumarill
    Blaziken
    Charizard
    Crobat
    Donphan
    Dragonite
    Drapion
    Espeon
    Exeggutor
    Feraligatr
    Floatzel
    Froslass
    Gardevoir
    Hariyama
    Honchkrow
    Houndoom
    Jynx
    Kabutops
    Leafeon
    Lickilicky
    Linoone
    Ludicolo
    Magmortar
    Marowak
    Medicham
    Mesprit
    Miltank
    Mismagius
    Moltres
    Ninjask
    Pinsir
    Raikou
    Rampardos
    Regice
    Regigigas
    Regirock
    Registeel
    Rhyperior
    Rotom
    Sceptile
    Shaymin
    Shiftry
    Slaking
    Slowbro
    Slowking
    Smeargle
    Staraptor
    Steelix
    Tangrowth
    Tauros
    Torterra
    Toxicroak
    Typhlosion
    Umbreon
    Ursaring
    Uxie
    Venusaur
    Zangoose


    A Note on the Difference between BL and OU:
    The cutoff between BL and OU has been known to have some gray areas, so this will make our BL/OU cutoff policy more clear. Not only does Shoddy keep rankings for Pokemon usage, but they also keep percentages. This is to show not only which Pokemon are being used more than others, but also how much more some are used than others. Anything in the group of Pokemon that take up 75% of the total usage  on Smogon's Shoddy server will be OU, assuming that the Pokemon overpowers UU and is not outclassed or increasingly irrelevant in OU. For example, Donphan can hardly stand up to the top OU physical threats and has problems as a Rapid Spinner. It also lacks recovery, and its usage is consistently falling. It is therefore BL. The only exception is a Pokemon that overpowers UU and adds a relevant strategy to the standard environment, but may not be high in usage. Abomasnow fits this perfectly.



    UU
    UU is a tier for Pokemon that are decent, but just aren’t up to the standards. This could be because of stats, movepool, or a host of other reasons. With skill and good prediction, Pokemon in UU can be used in standard play. UU is also a balanced tier with its own metagame. UU stands for UnderUsed, since these Pokemon are rarely seen in standard play and often weaker than the OU competition. UU is intended to be a balanced metagame. A UU Pokemon can only move to BL if it overpowers UU.

    UU:
    Aggron
    Altaria
    Ambipom
    Armaldo
    Banette
    Bastiodon
    Bellossom
    Bibarel
    Blastoise
    Camerupt
    Cherrim
    Claydol
    Clefable
    Cloyster
    Cradily
    Crawdaunt
    Delibird
    Dewgong
    Dodrio
    Drifblim
    Dunsparce
    Electrode
    Exploud
    Fearow
    Gastrodon
    Glaceon
    Glalie
    Golduck
    Golem
    Gorebyss
    Granbull
    Grumpig
    Hitmonchan
    Hitmonlee
    Hitmontop
    Huntail
    Hypno
    Jumpluff
    Kangaskhan
    Kingler
    Lanturn
    Lapras
    Lopunny
    Lunatone
    Luxray
    Manectric
    Mantine
    Meganium
    Minun
    Mr. Mime
    Muk
    Nidoking
    Nidoqueen
    Ninetales
    Noctowl
    Octillery
    Omastar
    Persian
    Phione
    Pikachu
    Plusle
    Politoed
    Poliwrath
    Porygon2
    Primeape
    Probopass
    Purugly
    Quagsire
    Qwilfish
    Raichu
    Rapidash
    Relicanth
    Sableye
    Sandslash
    Scyther
    Seviper
    Sharpedo
    Shedinja
    Shuckle
    Skuntank
    Solrock
    Sudowoodo
    Swellow
    Torkoal
    Venomoth
    Vespiquen
    Victreebel
    Vileplume
    Wailord
    Walrein
    Weezing
    Whiscash
    Wormadam [Ground]
    Xatu

    NU
    NU is a trashlist for UU. These Pokemon are generally weak in all aspects and are inferior to UU competiton. These Pokemon are rarely seen outside of designated NU battles. These Pokemon are legal in UU and OU, but there is absolutely no reason to use them unless you’re using a team of favorites or a theme team.

    Ampharos
    Arbok
    Ariados
    Articuno
    Beautifly
    Beedrill
    Butterfree
    Cacturne
    Carnivine
    Castform
    Chatot
    Chimecho
    Clamperl
    Corsola
    Delcatty
    Ditto
    Dustox
    Farfetch’d
    Flareon
    Furret
    Girafarig
    Illumise
    Kecleon
    Kricketune
    Ledian
    Lumineon
    Luvdisc
    Magcargo
    Magikarp
    Masquerain
    Mawile
    Mightyena
    Mothim
    Pachirisu
    Parasect
    Pelliper
    Pidgeot
    Raticate
    Seaking
    Spinda
    Stantler
    Sunflora
    Swalot
    Trapinch
    Tropius
    Unown
    Volbeat
    Wigglytuff
    Wormadam [Grass]
    Wormadam [Steel]


    Self-proclaimed Zombie Moderator
    You don't have to come and confess. We lookin for you. We gon find you.
  • #2
    Bonsai we are currentely missing a limbo. tier even if no pkmn are currentely in it we should add it anyways.
  • #3
    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!
  • #4
    Quote from Raquan95 »

    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!


    Of course they should of never attempted to move him up in the first place. What should be done is the moving of latias from Uber to Ou without the soul dew. I have a good agrument the link is below.
  • #5
    Quote from UmbreonFromTheShadow »

    Quote from Raquan95 »

    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!

    Of course they should of never attempted to move him up in the first place. What should be done is the moving of latias from Uber to Ou without the soul dew. I have a good agrument the link is below.




    Just drop the Latias to OU please. I don't think it has been decided yet if Garchomp will be moved to Ubers or not.
  • #6
    Quote from UmbreonFromTheShadow »

    Quote from Raquan95 »

    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!

    Of course they should of never attempted to move him up in the first place. What should be done is the moving of latias from Uber to Ou without the soul dew. I have a good agrument the link is below.




    Its still Uber.... -_- ..shame.



    I really dont get why Milotic is continuously moved up and down from BL to OU. I hope it just stays this time.



    edit - um, wth, Porygon-Z is BL? I'm really curious as to how anyone could ever come to such a conclusion. It has the highest the special attack tied with alakazam, nasty plot to make it go to beyong uber proportions, agility to give it the speed it needs to get ahead of all scarfers, two abilities to give it more power, a great movepool, ok defenses with good HP for a sweeper.

    Those are most of the reasons it should be OU. I'm still not getting how ut could ever be moved down, the only possible reason being a sever decrease in it's usage...
    I'm Back Into Pokemon, minus the wifi.

    Okay...I was okay with Smogon putting chomp as uber. But now, they have seriously lost their minds putting Salamence as uber. Nuts to that. You're free to use Salamence in a battle against me if you wish. No, this does not imply that I will use said dragon 100% of the time. No I am butthurt over it being declared uber. I will just not recognize it as an Uber. It's a good pokemon, great even, but really...Uber? Smogon just hates dragons ^_^
  • #7
    Quote from UmbreonFromTheShadow »

    Quote from Raquan95 »

    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!

    Of course they should of never attempted to move him up in the first place.


    Oh, so you give evidence for the Latias to OU claim but you don't want to give evidence for keeping Garchomp in OU?

    What should be done is the moving of latias from Uber to Ou without the soul dew. I have a good agrument the link is below.




    Seriously, what Gorgonzola said. I mean, I know you're just trying to help the tier list or whatever, but it's starting to get annoying.
  • #8
    And so my Porygon-Z argument went with it... ****ing ****. I'll try to recreate...

    Porygon-Z is arguably the best special user of a choice scarf in the standard metagame. With 405 SpAtk and 411 speed with scarf, along with adaptability jacking up its STAB, it's incredibly easy to hit stuff hard, even when a resist is brought in [Tintedlenswut?].
    Porygon-Z is something completely unique in the OU metagame. It packs the wonderful Boltbeam, and essentially the only thing that resists its standard moveset is Magnezone, for whom Z can easily pack HP Fighting. The same goes for the common TTar, but neither can really switch in a bunch due to lack or recovery.

    And base 90 attack? With a life orb, Porygon-z easily 2HKOs its most common switch in, Blissey, and is then free to sweep with nasty plot or agility. The nasty plot set means not much can really switch in after a single nasty plot, but of course it lacks speed. It's sturdy as ****, and adaptability jacking its stab up to essentially 160 base power, with 405 SpAtk?

    Sure, there are Pokes who beat out the scarf version, but timid porygon-z still packs a massive punch, and it comes equipped with download as well, which, when used correctly, can work insanely well.


    Now, I'm realizing I'm not writing this as well as I did the first time, and it REALLY pisses me off that the first one got deleted, but.. someone tell me what comes and does P-Z's job better in OU. What OUTCLASSES it? I thought we didn't make our tiers entirely by usage, but by power, and I'd like to see someone give me a few good reasons outside of usage that Porygon-z should be moved down to BL.



    Also, @Umbreonfromtheshadoworwhatever: Your latias argument is horribly flawed.
    Latias DNE Cresselia or Suicune. Everyone knows that its Defense is worse than both of theirs, and most people are not expecting to use it in the same way.

    Also, you called Soul Dew a HAX ITEM, and went on to say that they are banned, which is NOT true in standard rules. That, for me, makes you ENTIRE ARGUMENT completely flawed, since it's obviously not coming from a reliable source.
  • #9
    I agree with Pokekage and ect. This tier list is based on usage now.
  • #10
    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    And so my Porygon-Z argument went with it... [REMOVED] heck. I'll try to recreate...

    Porygon-Z is arguably the best special user of a choice scarf in the standard metagame. With 405 SpAtk and 411 speed with scarf, along with adaptability jacking up its STAB, it's incredibly easy to hit stuff hard, even when a resist is brought in [Tintedlenswut?].
    Porygon-Z is something completely unique in the OU metagame. It packs the wonderful Boltbeam, and essentially the only thing that resists its standard moveset is Magnezone, for whom Z can easily pack HP Fighting. The same goes for the common TTar, but neither can really switch in a bunch due to lack or recovery.

    And base 90 attack? With a life orb, Porygon-z easily 2HKOs its most common switch in, Blissey, and is then free to sweep with nasty plot or agility. The nasty plot set means not much can really switch in after a single nasty plot, but of course it lacks speed. It's sturdy as heck, and adaptability jacking its stab up to essentially 160 base power, with 405 SpAtk?

    Sure, there are Pokes who beat out the scarf version, but timid porygon-z still packs a massive punch, and it comes equipped with download as well, which, when used correctly, can work insanely well.


    Now, I'm realizing I'm not writing this as well as I did the first time, and it REALLY [REMOVED] me off that the first one got deleted, but.. someone tell me what comes and does P-Z's job better in OU. What OUTCLASSES it? I thought we didn't make our tiers entirely by usage, but by power, and I'd like to see someone give me a few good reasons outside of usage that Porygon-z should be moved down to BL.



    Also, @Umbreonfromtheshadoworwhatever: Your latias argument is horribly flawed.
    Latias DNE Cresselia or Suicune. Everyone knows that its Defense is worse than both of theirs, and most people are not expecting to use it in the same way.

    Also, you called Soul Dew a HAX ITEM, and went on to say that they are banned, which is NOT true in standard rules. That, for me, makes you ENTIRE ARGUMENT completely flawed, since it's obviously not coming from a reliable source.




    There's a good argument. ^_^



    Porygon-Z is far too powerful even in OU where bissey, snorlax, and regice are its only walls, cresselia is OHKOed by life orbed, nasty plotted, adaptability tri attack if she isn't packing sdef EVs. Porygon-Z will be outright uber in BL, so many will resort to using it since barely anything in there can switch in (None safetely), and as I see it, none can counter it. If something can, in BL, it would be nice if you would say so.



    Edit - The tier list got off to a bad start since we noticed that some of the pokemon changed tiers due to usage. I know OU means "Overused", but Like ecetera said, Nothing outclasses porygon-z in OU, and even there few things wall it. in BL, nothing can wall it unless its stuck on a choiced move and you bring in a corresponding counter.
    I'm Back Into Pokemon, minus the wifi.

    Okay...I was okay with Smogon putting chomp as uber. But now, they have seriously lost their minds putting Salamence as uber. Nuts to that. You're free to use Salamence in a battle against me if you wish. No, this does not imply that I will use said dragon 100% of the time. No I am butthurt over it being declared uber. I will just not recognize it as an Uber. It's a good pokemon, great even, but really...Uber? Smogon just hates dragons ^_^
  • #11
    Quote from Pokekage »

    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    And so my Porygon-Z argument went with it... [REMOVED] heck. I'll try to recreate...

    Porygon-Z is arguably the best special user of a choice scarf in the standard metagame. With 405 SpAtk and 411 speed with scarf, along with adaptability jacking up its STAB, it's incredibly easy to hit stuff hard, even when a resist is brought in [Tintedlenswut?].
    Porygon-Z is something completely unique in the OU metagame. It packs the wonderful Boltbeam, and essentially the only thing that resists its standard moveset is Magnezone, for whom Z can easily pack HP Fighting. The same goes for the common TTar, but neither can really switch in a bunch due to lack or recovery.

    And base 90 attack? With a life orb, Porygon-z easily 2HKOs its most common switch in, Blissey, and is then free to sweep with nasty plot or agility. The nasty plot set means not much can really switch in after a single nasty plot, but of course it lacks speed. It's sturdy as heck, and adaptability jacking its stab up to essentially 160 base power, with 405 SpAtk?

    Sure, there are Pokes who beat out the scarf version, but timid porygon-z still packs a massive punch, and it comes equipped with download as well, which, when used correctly, can work insanely well.


    Now, I'm realizing I'm not writing this as well as I did the first time, and it REALLY [REMOVED] me off that the first one got deleted, but.. someone tell me what comes and does P-Z's job better in OU. What OUTCLASSES it? I thought we didn't make our tiers entirely by usage, but by power, and I'd like to see someone give me a few good reasons outside of usage that Porygon-z should be moved down to BL.



    Also, @Umbreonfromtheshadoworwhatever: Your latias argument is horribly flawed.
    Latias DNE Cresselia or Suicune. Everyone knows that its Defense is worse than both of theirs, and most people are not expecting to use it in the same way.

    Also, you called Soul Dew a HAX ITEM, and went on to say that they are banned, which is NOT true in standard rules. That, for me, makes you ENTIRE ARGUMENT completely flawed, since it's obviously not coming from a reliable source.


    There's a good argument. ^_^

    Porygon-Z is far too powerful even in OU where bissey, snorlax, and regice are its only walls, cresselia is OHKOed by life orbed, nasty plotted, adaptability tri attack if she isn't packing sdef EVs. Porygon-Z will be outright uber in BL, so many will resort to using it since barely anything in there can switch in (None safetely), and as I see it, none can counter it. If something can, in BL, it would be nice if you would say so.


    Please, don't apply the argument of how it works in BL to this. How anything works in BL is the equivalent of saying garchomp should be OU because it isn't that good in Ubers. It doesn't work like that.
  • #12
    I definitely agree that Porygon-Z is an OU.



    But am I the only who thinks Abomasnow shouldn't be an OU? His seven weaknesses and mediocre stats should put him in BL or UU for sure.
  • #14
    Quote from blackliquid009 »

    I definitely agree that Porygon-Z is an OU.

    But am I the only who thinks Abomasnow shouldn't be an OU? His seven weaknesses and mediocre stats should put him in BL or UU for sure.


    I used to think Abomasnow in OU was a joke, but when you come to think of it, he brings an entire new strategy to the metagame, and that alone means he deserves a spot in OU.
  • #13
    It doesnt matter if it is walled or not walled in BL. BL is simply a banlist, not a metagame itself. It's not supposed to be balanced.
    Hai
  • #15
    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    Quote from Pokekage »

    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    And so my Porygon-Z argument went with it... [REMOVED] heck. I'll try to recreate...

    Porygon-Z is arguably the best special user of a choice scarf in the standard metagame. With 405 SpAtk and 411 speed with scarf, along with adaptability jacking up its STAB, it's incredibly easy to hit stuff hard, even when a resist is brought in [Tintedlenswut?].
    Porygon-Z is something completely unique in the OU metagame. It packs the wonderful Boltbeam, and essentially the only thing that resists its standard moveset is Magnezone, for whom Z can easily pack HP Fighting. The same goes for the common TTar, but neither can really switch in a bunch due to lack or recovery.

    And base 90 attack? With a life orb, Porygon-z easily 2HKOs its most common switch in, Blissey, and is then free to sweep with nasty plot or agility. The nasty plot set means not much can really switch in after a single nasty plot, but of course it lacks speed. It's sturdy as heck, and adaptability jacking its stab up to essentially 160 base power, with 405 SpAtk?

    Sure, there are Pokes who beat out the scarf version, but timid porygon-z still packs a massive punch, and it comes equipped with download as well, which, when used correctly, can work insanely well.


    Now, I'm realizing I'm not writing this as well as I did the first time, and it REALLY [REMOVED] me off that the first one got deleted, but.. someone tell me what comes and does P-Z's job better in OU. What OUTCLASSES it? I thought we didn't make our tiers entirely by usage, but by power, and I'd like to see someone give me a few good reasons outside of usage that Porygon-z should be moved down to BL.



    Also, @Umbreonfromtheshadoworwhatever: Your latias argument is horribly flawed.
    Latias DNE Cresselia or Suicune. Everyone knows that its Defense is worse than both of theirs, and most people are not expecting to use it in the same way.

    Also, you called Soul Dew a HAX ITEM, and went on to say that they are banned, which is NOT true in standard rules. That, for me, makes you ENTIRE ARGUMENT completely flawed, since it's obviously not coming from a reliable source.


    There's a good argument. ^_^

    Porygon-Z is far too powerful even in OU where bissey, snorlax, and regice are its only walls, cresselia is OHKOed by life orbed, nasty plotted, adaptability tri attack if she isn't packing sdef EVs. Porygon-Z will be outright uber in BL, so many will resort to using it since barely anything in there can switch in (None safetely), and as I see it, none can counter it. If something can, in BL, it would be nice if you would say so.

    Please, don't apply the argument of how it works in BL to this. How anything works in BL is the equivalent of saying garchomp should be OU because it isn't that good in Ubers. It doesn't work like that.




    Thats not what I meant. I'm saying its good in OU, and I agreed with you that I ant see anything that outclasses porygon-Z.

    in BL, I'm saying it'll be overpowering, and that leads to possible overcentralization.
    I'm Back Into Pokemon, minus the wifi.

    Okay...I was okay with Smogon putting chomp as uber. But now, they have seriously lost their minds putting Salamence as uber. Nuts to that. You're free to use Salamence in a battle against me if you wish. No, this does not imply that I will use said dragon 100% of the time. No I am butthurt over it being declared uber. I will just not recognize it as an Uber. It's a good pokemon, great even, but really...Uber? Smogon just hates dragons ^_^
  • #16
    Oh yeah and you missed Zangoose.
  • #17
    Zangoose is a little too frail.
  • #18
    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    Quote from blackliquid009 »

    I definitely agree that Porygon-Z is an OU.

    But am I the only who thinks Abomasnow shouldn't be an OU? His seven weaknesses and mediocre stats should put him in BL or UU for sure.

    I used to think Abomasnow in OU was a joke, but when you come to think of it, he brings an entire new strategy to the metagame, and that alone means he deserves a spot in OU.




    That's exactly how I feel about it. I thought Smogon was being dumb when they put Aboma in OU, but as I thought about it, it makes more sense there.







    BL is not a metagame. Nobody can argue that Porygon-Z will destroy the BL metagame because there is no such thing. People do BL matches, yes. I've done a few myself, and they're all horribly unbalanced and one-sided. I've moved it to BL because its usage has been steadily declining in recent months. I actually attribute this to Deoxys-E's introduction into the metagame. In November and December, Porygon-Z was right up there in usage. Since January, it's been going down. Deoxys-E outspeeds it and kills with Superpower.

    Self-proclaimed Zombie Moderator
    You don't have to come and confess. We lookin for you. We gon find you.
  • #19
    Quote from BonsaiDude »

    Quote from Etceteraetcetera »

    Quote from blackliquid009 »

    I definitely agree that Porygon-Z is an OU.

    But am I the only who thinks Abomasnow shouldn't be an OU? His seven weaknesses and mediocre stats should put him in BL or UU for sure.

    I used to think Abomasnow in OU was a joke, but when you come to think of it, he brings an entire new strategy to the metagame, and that alone means he deserves a spot in OU.


    That's exactly how I feel about it. I thought Smogon was being dumb when they put Aboma in OU, but as I thought about it, it makes more sense there.



    BL is not a metagame. Nobody can argue that Porygon-Z will destroy the BL metagame because there is no such thing. People do BL matches, yes. I've done a few myself, and they're all horribly unbalanced and one-sided. I've moved it to BL because its usage has been steadily declining in recent months. I actually attribute this to Deoxys-E's introduction into the metagame. In November and December, Porygon-Z was right up there in usage. Since January, it's been going down. Deoxys-E outspeeds it and kills with Superpower.


    Speed form cannot switch in, though.



    Please, do not ignore my argument just because Pokekage agreed with it with his stupid BL metagame bits.
  • #20
    Quote from Gorgonzola-xd »

    Quote from UmbreonFromTheShadow »

    Quote from Raquan95 »

    Garchomp is OU! Hurray!

    Of course they should of never attempted to move him up in the first place. What should be done is the moving of latias from Uber to Ou without the soul dew. I have a good agrument the link is below.


    Just drop the Latias to OU please. I don't think it has been decided yet if Garchomp will be moved to Ubers or not.






    why would garchomp be uber it only has 600 total base stats and it is 4x weak to ice dragonite and salamence are also like that



    cressy is more uber than chomp, that thing lasts forever.



    i thought wobbufet was ou

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